On de-communization and openness

A delegation presided by Dan Stoenescu, Minister Delegate for Relations with Romanians abroad, has visited Ukraine recently. Before that, he repeatedly visited Bukovyna, Pokuttia, and Odesa oblast – places of the Romanian minority. The Day met with Mr. Stoenescu to get to know more about his diplomatic mission in Ukraine.

“I have always wanted to be a diplomat, because I studied abroad and I was directly involved in International relations from an early age. When I was 18, I was awarded a scholarship to the United States. I lived for four years in the US and one year in UK, then in Egypt. Meanwhile, being a student, I worked as a journalist, to have some extra money. But my main profession is that of a diplomat. I studied international relations and political science and I have been a diplomat since 2007.”

Mr. Stoenescu, as I understand your visit in Ukraine is the third after Serbia and Albania. Does it mean that Romanian Diaspora in Ukraine is the third biggest in the world?

“Actually it is not my third visit. I have visited more countries because we have two kinds of communities that live abroad. Firstly, we have a historical community that lives in the near abroad and I visited as you had mentioned before, the Romanian community in Serbia, Albania, but also the community in Hungary. I was in Hungary recently. Secondly, I visited communities in Italy and Spain, as well. In Italy there are more than 1.2 million Romanians and in Spain we have more than 1 million. I was also part of the Romanian delegation of Prime Minister Dacian Ciolos in his official visits to Berlin and Paris, and in this capacity I had the opportunity to meet the Romanian community in Germany and also in France.

“I decided to undertake this latest visit to Ukraine because we have a very important Romanian community here. It is the second minority in Ukraine after the Russian community. They mainly live in Bukovyna, in Odesa region, and in Transcarpathia.”

As I understand, you are telling about a historical kind of community. What is the other kind?

“It is a recent Diaspora migration that has been going on in the past years. Because of that, we have different policies for Romanians in Ukraine, the Republic of Moldova, Serbia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Italy, and Spain. They have different needs. And we have different approaches.”

By the way, is it your first visit in Ukraine or you have been in our country before?

“I have been in Ukraine before and I am happy to be back in your country. Ukraine is our neighbor and we have a long history with Ukraine. I was here in Bukovyna region before. I visited also Pokuttia, Transcarpathia, and the Odesa region. I am always happy to be back in Ukraine, especially in the situation, when Ukraine faces tremendous changes and Ukraine is our partner on its path towards the European Union.”

What is your personal position on what is happening in our country since the annexation of Crimea by Russia and the so called conflict on Donbas which in fact is a Russian aggression?

“Romania’s position concerning Ukraine has remained unchanged. We are a strong supporter of Ukraine. We have encouraged Ukraine on its daring path towards ample domestic reforms.

“We have offered our expertise and assistance on every occasion. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lazar Comanescu has reconfirmed our stance and our offer for support to Minister of Foreign Affairs Pavlo Klimkin, over their last meetings.

“We understand very well the challenges Ukraine is facing and the numerous obstacles. We hope Ukraine’s political elite will manage this difficult situation, so that the population could have more opportunities and Ukraine’s rapprochement with the EU could be well understood and concretely felt by Ukrainian citizens.

“Romania has consistently condemned all actions that are in breach of the territorial integrity and political independence of Ukraine. We have supported all measures taken with a view to identify solutions to the situation in Ukraine, including the EU sanction instrument. Consequently, the Romanian authorities have made every effort to ensure respect for International Law.

“Regarding the conflict in Donbas, Romania has underlined the need to find a political solution to end this conflict which has had dire consequences for the Ukrainian population.

“And this is very important to be understood by the Ukrainian public. Romania is a strong partner and a strong supporter of Ukraine.”

Have you read or heard about the comments by Putin who criticized the decision of Lenin to give autonomy to the Soviet Republic which “in the end led to the fall of the Soviet Union.” “There were many such ideas as providing regions with autonomy, and so on. They planted an atomic bomb under the building that is called Russia, which later exploded. We did not need a global revolution,” he said. But you may see it is the case which Putin is trying to do with Ukraine forcing it to give autonomy to Donbas. What do you think about this?

“I have not heard about this. But what I can tell you is that the policy of Ukraine towards decommunization and destalinization is the right path towards integration into the EU. In order to be part of the EU you have to be part of a family of values. The decommunization and the destalinization processes led by the Ukrainian government are the right path.”

But you see Germany and France, in fact together with Russia, trying to impose on Ukraine decentralization which means autonomization which may lead in Putin’s words to putting atomic bomb in Ukraine and we here see it as the threat to integrity of our country.

“In terms of implementation of Minsk 2 we believe that the sanctions should last until the full implementation of this agreement. Regarding this matter, we are in contact with our European partners and we are working for the stabilization and pacification of the situation in Ukraine. And only by that we can reach concrete steps.

“We believe that any answers on political organization of Ukraine should come from Kyiv and in this issue we support the full integrity, independence, and sovereignty of Ukraine. Any decision should be taken by the central government of Ukraine and by the Ukrainian people.”

What is the goal of your visit? Are you going to find out how the Romanian minority is treated by the Ukrainian authorities or do you already have a definite opinion on this matter? Then, what can you say in this connection? Are Romanians in Ukraine treated better then in Serbia or Moldova or what are the differences in this sphere?

“One of the reasons in planning this visit was to be in contact with both the representatives from the Romanian minority as well as with the representatives of the Ukrainian authorities – be it at central, regional or local level. If you want to use a diplomatic concept to define my visit here, that is listening mood.

“Ukraine is going through a vast reforming process and in this matter what we, the Romanian partners, would like to see is that the commitments undertaken by the Ukrainian authorities in the field of protection of the rights of the persons belonging to national minorities remain valid.

“Ukraine is one of the European countries whose richness consists of the diversity of its own citizens and this is a realm which needs to be further developed. A multicultural society, and I do think Ukraine is one, means taking stock of the identity of each citizen and developing policies that reflect the recognition, protection, and promotion of diversity.

“Recognizing, respecting, and promoting the multiculturalism and interculturalism are essential democratic values and need to be embraced by everyone who wants to be part of the big European family.

“One of the main points of my mandate is the acknowledgement that there is no size-fits-all approach for each Romanian community that lives outside the Romanian borders. You cannot compare the needs of the Romanian communities in Italy with those from Serbia or with those from Hungary. Even here, in Ukraine, you cannot compare the needs of the Crimean Tatars with those of the Bulgarian ethnics or the Polish ethnics.

“What I would like to suggest you is an exercise for your newspaper: go to Odesa or to Transcarpathia and talk to the Romanian-speaking communities. You will find how different their needs are, despite the fact that there is one common point: the language they speak, which is Romanian.

“We have important Romanian communities in Northern Bukovyna, Transcarpathia, and the Odesa region, where more than half million of ethnic Romanians live, if not more.”

And what is the Romanian government doing to help Romanians in Ukraine to maintain or keep their traditions and what do you expect from the Ukrainian government in this case?

“Our country has a broad framework of actions destined to foster Romanian minorities in their efforts to preserve and affirm their identity.

“We are, first of all, opened to the needs of Romanians in Ukraine, as they define them, offering them support to carry on their own projects. Thus, we grant irredeemable funds to organizations and associations of Romanian minority in Ukraine, which they can use to finance education, mass media, development of civil society and social capital, conservation of traditional culture and religious life.

“Secondly, we foster the relations of Romanians in Ukraine with our country and the community of Romanians from the entire world. Thus, we welcome the presence of many Romanian children and Romanian young people from Ukraine along with Romanian children and Romanian young people that came from other countries where Romanians are now living, in all kind of events meant to contribute to a better knowledge of the Romanian language, culture and civilization and, as well, to the strengthening of their identity as part of the Romanian community from the entire world.

“Thirdly, we help the Romanian community in Ukraine to develop as a valuable part of the Ukrainian society, by receiving young people from this country to come and study in Romanian universities, at all levels, and form as specialists in all fields of knowledge.

“Last but not least, we are active, within the bilateral cooperation framework, in promoting Romanian language, culture, and civilization in Ukraine through a wide range of projects carried on by cultural institutions as Romanian Cultural Institute, but not exclusively.

“Our expectations toward Ukraine, and the other countries where Romanian minorities live, regard a similar treatment and a similar attention to those we offer to their own minorities in Romania.

“Our country is widely recognized as a good example in dealing with minorities. Ukrainians, and other national minorities in Romania, enjoy a broad system of rights and facilitations, they benefit of education in their mother tongue in public schools, they receive public subsidies for their organizations and publications, they enjoy political representation in the national Parliament regardless of their weight and electoral result.

“Committed to the principle of reciprocity, we expect a similar treatment and attention given by Ukrainian authorities to Romanian minority.”

By the way, who did you meet with in Kyiv and what massages were you trying to send to the Ukrainian side?

“The messages to our Ukrainian partners are to encourage the European path and partnership towards the development of Ukraine in terms of minority rights and in terms of general development of the Ukrainian society. We are sharing the same values. And it is important for us to have dialogs with the Ukrainian authorities. We are supporting Ukraine in the domestic reforms and we are ready to offer our expertise to Ukraine. And here we also offered concrete help in terms of fighting corruption and justice reform. We expressed our satisfaction for the high-level contacts. As I mentioned, our Foreign Minister Mr. Lazar Comanescu met his Ukrainian counterpart and on the level of Parliament we have a good relation between the Romanian Parliament and the Verkhovna Rada. Soon, we will open a consulate in Solotvyno in Transcarpathia, which will implement the traffic-border agreement that was signed in August 2015. Furthermore, I am happy that the Ukrainian Ministry of Culture is straightforward about the idea of opening a Cultural Center in Ismail. I am happy that our Ukrainian colleagues are willing to work with us in order to further bring Ukraine closer to Romania and to Europe. Part of my delegation is Ms. Sandra Pralong, State Adviser to the President of Romania H.E. Klaus Iohannis. We have also a representative of the Romanian Senate Commission for Romanians Abroad, Mr. Cristache. Also, part of the delegation is a representative of the Ministry of Regional Development and Administration, Vice Minister Soare. His participation shows our interest in cooperating with Ukraine at all levels, including regional development. There are funds which are given by the EU in order to develop transborder areas. And this is of common interest if the transborder region, where there are ethnic minorities is a prosperous region. Then, both Ukrainians and the minorities will have a higher standard of living. This is our European interest and approach. And this is what we should do together with our Ukrainian partners.”

By the way, how does Romania differentiate between Romanians and Moldovans, which are living in Ukraine and consider themselves different nations, or is there different approach in dealing with them?

“First, I would like to tell you a story. Few people know that in Kyiv, since November 2011, at the Kyiv Pechersk Lavra complex, two Romanian priests are preaching in Romanian on each Sunday and on each major Orthodox holiday. This was done by a common demarche of the Embassies of Romania and of the Republic of Moldova, with the support of the Ukrainian authorities. The people that come to attend the religious service are speaking Romanian and they are Orthodox.

“Romania has never interfered on the individual’s own and free choice to choose their identity – be it religious, linguistics, ethnic, political, sexual, etc. And our point of view is supported by the Council of Europe’s decisions.

“In 2015 Romania celebrated 20 years since the adoption of the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities. This was a moment when the Romanian authorities evaluated the progress since 1989 in the field of policies dedicated to the respect and promotion of the diversity inside our society. In other words, we assessed all the measures that brought harmony between the ‘majority’ and the ‘minority,’ but also among the minority groups.

“But we do not support creating and entertaining artificial polarization of the same linguistic group. This is an old technique and the countries that were under Soviet domination still suffer from these politics. If we want to look towards the future, we need to change the mentality. The destalinization and decommunization processes led by the Ukrainian government, show this openness to the 21st century, which means to forget the policy of artificial division between Romanians and Moldovans. We all have the same identity, we all speak Romanian, we are the same people – ‘Wir sind ein Volk,’ as they say in German. We do not believe that there is any Moldovan separate identity. The Constitutional Court of the Republic of Moldova recognized in 2013, Romanian as the official language of the Republic of Moldova. We are one nation and any kind of artificial division between Romanians and Moldovans is just a continuation of the Stalinist policy, which should not exist in the 21st century.”

We know that many Moldovans in Moldova are trying to get Romanian passport which helps them to have free access to the EU. There are also the facts that your country is giving Romanian passports to Romanians and Moldovans living in Ukraine. Why is your country doing this? You know that Ukraine does not recognize dual citizenship.

“We do not follow a policy to bestow the Romanian citizenship on the citizens of Ukraine or of the Republic of Moldova (or any other countries, for that matter); the Romanian citizenship can be acquired only on the basis of a demand, if certain substantive and procedural conditions are met. The Romanian Law on Citizenship does not provide for a different, more favorable, regime based on ethnic criteria, or on the citizenship already held by the solicitant.

“Our legislation simply provides some facilitation, of procedural nature, which applies to certain special categories, notably to former Romanian citizens (and to their descendents up to third-level kinship) who lost their citizenship due to historical circumstances independent of their own will, or to persons who have significantly contributed to the maintenance and development of the Romanian culture and spirituality.

“The Romanian legislation on citizenship fully complies with the international and European requirements in the field, including the relevant Council of Europe Convention on Nationality. The Romanian authorities cannot enforce the Ukrainian legislation that forbids dual citizenship.”