Roman WASCHUK: “It is crucial that Ukraine preserves the wave of horizontal self-organization”

Canada has always backed Ukraine and was the first nation to acknowledge our state’s independence after the referendum of December 1, 1991. The support of the Maple Leaf Country has been especially felt after the annexation of Crimea and the Russian invasion in Donbas. Last year, global media cited the words of Canada’s Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who told Russia’s Vladimir Putin to get out of Ukraine at the G20 summit.

On July 28 the participants of the Summer School of Journalism were able to meet Canada’s Ambassador to Ukraine Roman Waschuk, who has a Ukrainian background, and learn first-hand about Ottawa’s stand in opposing Russian aggression, Canada’s contribution to the reinforcement of Ukraine’s defense capabilities, and the prospects opened by the free trade agreement to both countries. Waschuk also named the traits of Ukrainian character which will enable Ukraine to persevere in the war with Russia.

 Larysa IVSHYNA:

“Over these tempestuous months not only have we in Ukraine learned who our true friends are (we knew this before), but also compiled a personal ranking of countries, where Canada is undoubtedly number one. A particularly strict test has been applied: every time we scrutinized the reviews for their choice of words. Was it ‘the conflict in the east of Ukraine’ or ‘Russia’s aggression’? ‘Annexation’ and ‘occupation’ of Crimea or, for some obscure reason, ‘the return of Crimea’ (where to? And why?). I strongly believe that while some emphasize the existence of a powerful Ukrainian diaspora in Canada (which, of course, is very important), the main thing is the devotion of the country and its government to those principles which we also share.

“I pin great hopes on this young generation – and Den’s Summer School of Journalism has actually been around for 13 years, striving to support young men and women, offer them a reliable foothold and make them into reliable partners. Not consumers of values and security in the world, but creators and producers. And I believe that they are ready to embrace the challenge.”

 Natalia SHYMKIV, Ivan Franko Lviv National University:

“Behind the scenes of the G20 summit in Brisbane, Australia, Canada’s Prime Minister Stephen Harper told Vladimir Putin to ‘get out of Ukraine.’ What exactly do you think the world has to do in order to make Russia get out and leave Ukraine alone?”

R.W.: “The world has been doing something, but not always successfully. I mean the sanctions, clear wording, and the definition of what is going on and why. Ms. Ivshyna has already mentioned this. Russia is largely trying to achieve its goals by breaking all the post-war political security rules for the Euro-Atlantic area, on the one hand, and hushing it up or going into denial, on the other. Thus it sows great confusion in the minds of compromise-oriented politicians: ‘What is this now? Here everyone is saying the right and good things, and at the same time, Ukraine is being bombed?’ Thus, by calling a spade a spade, we can help solve the problem. Also, Ukraine’s defense must be reinforced. For the time being, we are doing it by the so-called non-lethal means. But it is very important, because, surprising as it may seem, Ukraine is itself a large producer of weapons, and has big stocks. The only question is, how this all can be organized into a comprehensive defense system, which would effectively work for the country’s good. It seems to me that the exercises we hold with our allies, additional medical supplies (for instance, the mobile hospital which we just handed over), and other elements which the Armed Forces of Ukraine lack for objective reasons, increase Ukraine’s defense potential.”

 Oksana HRUBA, Ivan Franko Lviv National University:

“Which drastic measures must the West take, which strategy should it use to force Russia to comply with the Minsk accords?”

R.W.: “On the one hand, it is clear that Ukraine complies with the Minsk accords. On its part, the West partly emphasizes that formal liabilities be respected, which Ukraine signed in the framework of the accords. Then it will be clear as day which party does not comply. These are separatists and Russia, which keeps supplying arms and in all possible ways facilitates the realization of this aggression. This is becoming more and more obvious to the Western countries: first of all, to us, but also to our partners. Here, I think, you will see an expansion of army exercises with Ukraine and for Ukraine.

“Today begins an international military exercise, Rapid Trident. Our exercises, just like those held by Americans, are those actual measures which show to Russia that Ukraine has its own right, just like any other nation, to develop its defense, stand up for its rights, and cooperate with international partners in the area of defense.”

L.I.: “At first, when the Minsk accords were just signed, not everyone was happy with them. I must admit that we in our paper labeled them ‘the Minsk Pocket.’ This is not a recent development, and now the extent of the West’s readiness to deal with this situation is also obvious. Putin and the West have different logics, as you have just mentioned. The Western world has so far very limited means of reaction to Putin’s anti-logic. Putin is trying to create a trauma in Ukraine, which would prevent it from joining the Western world. Today we witness a distortion of our country’s image, and our potential to act independently is being reduced. Will the West be able to remain united when it comes to Ukraine? Because today Germany’s Ambassador to Russia said that ‘Russians’ visiting Crimea will not create any problems for obtaining a Schengen visa.’ This is what Russia strives for: stripping the West of its unity, piece by piece. Will the West be able to stand up against it?”

R.W.: “The Western world has the intentions and the mechanisms to ensure unity. We admit that various Western states play different roles in all of it. Some participate in the so-called Normandy format, others come together as OSCE or NATO. Some countries have a tighter form of economic ties with Russia, others, a more distant one. Each one is playing a role for which it is best placed by its geostrategic destiny or situation. But we try to keep this unity. Even the country which has survived all manner of economic traumas, I mean Greece, has nevertheless stayed in the context of the adopted sanctions and decisions. Sometimes the joint positions are not as clear-cut and unequivocal as Ukraine would like them to be, but we try to hold on to a common platform of non-acceptance of aggression and annexation and the sanctions against the Russian Federation.”

 Mykola SIRUK:

“Will this be sufficient? The West is speaking the language of diplomacy to Russia. There is no language of the military, a military component, containment, demonstration of power, which was there in the time of the Soviet Union. Maybe this is the missing argument which might force Putin to back out?”

R.W.: “The military argument is present along Ukraine’s western borders. As you can see, Canada’s ground and air forces, which were withdrawn from Europe in the early 1990s, are now deployed in the Baltics, in Romania, and in Poland. So, NATO’s military presence at its eastern borders is a message for Russia.”

M.S.: “But it does not react to this, and keeps provoking. Yesterday [Russian] ships violated Lithuania’s territorial waters. Not to mention constant provocations involving Russian intrusion into the NATO countries’ airspace. Can such an argument be considered efficient?”

R.W.: “I believe it is different from switching off the light in a room. This is a process. I think that, in support of their Permanent Deployments program, Americans are now prepared to deploy their armored vehicles in Poland and other countries along NATO’s eastern borders. Week in, week out, month in, month out, everything is developing.”

 Sofia RUSKYKH, Mykola Drahomanov National Pedagogic University:

“In the next few months, Canada will supply Ukraine with a mobile field hospital, high-frequency radio stations, and three million worth of explosive destruction systems, as well as 238 night vision devices. However, all of this comes under the non-lethal category. Given the protracted war in the east of Ukraine, could Canada also supply lethal weapons, necessary for the Ukrainian Army to counter the Russian aggression?”

R.W.: “Our defense systems develop together with those of our nearest allies. Speaking of handing over these systems, we should be doing it only after reaching a consensus with our allies, which at the moment are not prepared for such a step. I would like to reiterate that Ukraine is one of the world’s 10 leading exporters of weapons. I would not say that Ukraine would run out of ammo and arms, should Canada or other states withhold from sending weapons here.

“The issues of command, training, systemic approach, etc. are extremely important for the efficiency of Ukraine’s Armed Forces. And this is exactly what we are working on.

“We could also focus on other aspects (mostly concerning private companies and cooperation). Most armored vehicles, which are now made by the Kremenchuk Automotive Works, were jointly designed in cooperation with the Canadian company Stryker Automotive. Thus, not everything has to be imported. There are various forms of military and technical cooperation, which could be employed by private structures or the public sector.”

M.S.: “Would you please shed some light on the CF-18 story? It was rumored that Canada offered these fighters to us, but we declined.”

R.W.: “This is a pure canard. There might possibly be a certain go-in-between who knew that Canada had some deactivated jet fighters, and someone might have promised something to someone else, but Canada has never made an official proposal of this kind, and thus it has never been declined by anyone on the part of Ukraine. This has become an urban legend in Ukrainian social networks.”

Olena LYTVYNOVA, Ivan Franko Lviv National University: “Recently a group of Ukrainian politicians and activists proposed a referendum on Ukraine’s NATO membership. Are some countries’ reservations concerning Ukraine joining NATO justified, because this might vex Russia?”

R.W.: “This process is full of various dialectical forms. Firstly, the Ukrainians’ readiness to join NATO, provoked by Russia’s aggression. As we can see, opinion polls in Ukraine showed the preponderance of NATO supporters only after Russia’s aggression. So, Russia itself creates that very situation which it abhors.

“Every process has its time. Here, Ukraine has legislatively determined its path and has effectively began re-orientation according to the NATO standards. Americans are actually helping Ukrainian servicemen to get ready to comply with NATO’s standards. In my opinion, this should be in focus now, while all sorts of referendums and suchlike, which are rather a symbolic vote and do not guarantee conditions for applying, should be postponed.”

Iryna STELMAKH, Ivan Franko Lviv National University: “During Prime Minister Arsenii Yatseniuk’s business visit to Ottawa, a document on the rounding-up of negotiations concerning the Ukraine-Canada free trade zone was signed. What prospects does it open before Ukraine in commerce and economy?”

R.W.: “Our bilateral trade was not large in the past years, around 300-350 million dollars. Yet now we see the re-orientation of Ukraine’s foreign trade. We see new opportunities for Ukrainian export to Canada and vice versa. In particular, I mean cooperation in research and technology. I pin high hopes on the aerospace industry, aircraft engineering, and exchange of components and parts between Ukraine and Canada.

“According to the deal, 99.9 percent of Ukrainian agricultural exports will be exempt from all duties. I think there is a potential for the re-orientation of Ukrainian agricultural produce, in part on the Canadian market, too. I mean that Canada will discover the Ukrainian market, in particular, in the sphere of technology. Over the past years we have exported Canadian equipment for storing grain. Ukraine and Canada are competitors when it comes to grain production, but we have advantages in processing technologies, thus we can earn by supplying them to Ukraine. This involves grain depots and other related facilities. These are just introductory comments on the deal.”

Ihor SAMOKYSH: “Could you name a starting date for it?”

R.W.: “The negotiations are over. Now the text is handed over to lawyers and other experts, who have to check it for authenticity, and to translators, to have versions in English, French, and Ukrainian. We hope that everything will be completed before the year is out. First there will be a formal signing, followed by setting of the ratification term and effective date. I hope that the agreement will start working some time next year.”

Natalia PUSHKARUK, Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv: “A year ago, during his visit to Ukraine Canada’s Minister of International Trade Ed Fast remarked that the Ukrainian government was interested in the construction of Canadian nuclear low-enriched uranium reactors here. Have there been any practical steps towards the implementation of this project? In what way should it be further developed?”

R.W.: “We believe that the Canadian technology, based on low-enriched uranium which is produced in Ukraine, is a good option for Ukraine’s energy security. We are continuing negotiations on the level of interest and principles. We hope that, as the economic situation in Ukraine gradually grows more stable, we will be able to discuss this on a more concrete level. Past year we made a breakthrough in this branch. This is a long-lasting, multibillion process and, given Ukraine’s budget, we will see that at present there are no billions to spare.”

M.S.: “How about Canada giving Ukraine a loan, in order to occupy this market?”

R.W.: “This, too, requires the stabilization of macro-economic situation in Ukraine.”

Natalia BEZVOZIUK, Illia Mechnikov Odesa National University: “Now we are confronted with the question about punishing those guilty of the MH17 tragedy. Recently the Netherlands and other states, Ukraine included, demanded to set up an international tribunal. What is Canada’s standpoint in this question, and what kind of measures is it going to take?”

R.W.: “We totally support the creation of this tribunal, as proposed by the Netherland. This criminal act took the life of one Canadian citizen and one resident of Canada. We are prepared to fully back this idea, morally and materially, and lobby for exactly this solution in the UN. We resent Russia’s negative attitude towards this proposal. It is caused by the feeling of guilt among Russia’s top leadership. Yet justice must ultimately win in this case.”

Tetiana LITVINCHUK, Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv: “Recently a joint Ukraine-Canada project ‘Human Rights First,’ which is widely sponsored by the Canadian government. Why do you think Canada’s government is interested in the implementation of such projects? Does the problem of human rights exist in Ukraine today?”

R.W.: “Each state declares certain things in its constitution, which it promises to bestow on its citizens. The question is: what real tools exist in order for the citizens to be able to realize their rights. Probably, via the non-government and government sectors, our program in Ukraine means to help this country develop these particular tools for the citizens’ self-realization of these rights. Take free legal assistance, for example. This system has expanded from early July this year, and includes 100 centers across Ukraine, which offer free legal assistance in civil and criminal cases. It means that eight million Ukrainians with low incomes can not only theoretically, but actually consult lawyers who would defend and counsel them. This system functions in a partnership with Ukraine’s government. Our financing is secondary, the primary financing comes from Ukraine’s public budget, with the application of our 30-year expertise in the branch.

“By the way, jointly with Poland and via Solidarity Foundation, we organize a range of local government projects, based on NGOs and free media, in particular, in the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine. That is why we do not insist on our Canadian expertise, this could be also expertise from Poland or other countries, as long as there are practical skills and means which could be used by Ukrainian citizens.”