On new threats and global security

Recently the Ambassador Thrasyvoulos Stamatopoulos, NATO’s Assistant Secretary General for Political Affairs and Security Policy paid an official visit to Ukraine. It was his first visit on a new position to a country, which is a partner of NATO. In an exclusive interview for The Day Stamatopoulos spoke about the implementation of the defense reform in Ukraine and activities held within the framework of the Annual National Program NATO-Ukraine cooperation in 2013 and also about the main topics that will be discussed at the NATO Summit in 2014.

Now NATO military Exercise Steadfast Jazz is taking place in Baltic countries and Poland, but its scale is much lower than the Russian-Belarusian exercise which took place last month. And some experts, in particular British journalist Edward Lucas, suggested that NATO should have bigger or in other words more large-scale exercise in response to the pressure which Russia is putting on Ukraine in effort to make our country not to sign Association Agreement in Vilnius. What do you think about it?

“I may disappoint you a bit because I have not followed the questions of exercise that much. I mean NATO exercises are meant to exercise its structures. The Steadfast Jazz exercise was about exercising the NATO response force. This is what it is. It is not necessarily about NATO to show how strong it is or to threaten anybody. This is not the aim of the exercises. They are written in a certain way. There are certain preconditions that are needed to be fulfilled on this particular exercise of NATO response to see how it works. As to the assessments of this exercise they will be made later.”

How does NATO assess the level of NATO-Ukraine cooperation, particularly in regard to Ukraine’s implementation of the ANP?

“The ANP covers the entire breadth of reforms in Ukraine, from broad political reforms to technical military ones, so it is hard to give a short answer to this question.

“While our practical cooperation is focused on defense reforms and military cooperation, political dialog on reforms and regional security are central to the relationship.

“Allied Heads of State and Government made their concerns about the selective application of justice, electoral reform and the rule of law clear at the Chicago Summit in 2012. Those concerns remain, and we have held a number of consultations on these issues in the NATO-Ukraine Commission including with the president’s Advisor on constitutional reforms and legal modernization.

“Meanwhile, we have also had a robust exchange of views this year on regional security issues ranging from frozen conflicts to the security situation in the Middle East.

“Ukraine has made significant progress this year in terms of the formulation of an ambitious plan to professionalize its armed forces, and our military cooperation is going very well.”

How would you assess Ukraine’s participation in OOS?

“It is very significant for at least two reasons. First, Ukraine is the first of NATO’s partners to contribute to our anti-piracy operation off the Horn of Africa. This is an important mission and Ukraine’s contribution of the Hetman Sahaidachny, the flagship of the Ukrainian navy, is extremely valuable.

“Second, as soon as the Hetman Sahaidachny completes its rotation with Operation Ocean Shield at the end of December, it will immediately begin to participate in the EU’s anti-piracy operation in the same theatre, called operation Atalanta.

“This transition from Operation Ocean Shield to Operation Atalanta says a lot about the nature of international security and how it is maintained in today’s world.  

“It will be possible because the Ukrainian flagship achieved the level of interoperability necessary to work seamlessly with both NATO and EU forces.  This was based on a common set of standards developed by NATO.  And it demonstrates how Ukraine’s cooperation with NATO has contributed directly to its aspirations for EU membership.

“Here we see the fruits of our efforts to develop closer and more effective relations with other international organizations – not just with the EU, but also with the UN and the OSCE.”

Alliance is withdrawing its troops from Afghanistan. How would you evaluate Ukraine’s contribution to NATO’s operation in Afghanistan?

“Ukraine’s contribution of up to thirty servicemen to ISAF is not large in terms of numbers but highly significant given the expertise and focus areas of the people involved, ranging from expertise in counter-IED training to medical services.

“We are highly appreciative of Ukraine’s commitment to Resolute Support, the NATO mission that will continue to work in Afghanistan after 2014.”

Ukraine is in the midst of army reform, moving from a conscription-based to a contract-based army. How would you assess this process?  How can NATO help Ukraine with this, particularly in the area of adopting NATO’s standards?

“We played a role first of all in the development of the strategic planning documents that underpin the current reforms. We had discussions of your draft National Security Strategy and Military Doctrine a few years ago, and our annual consultations on defense planning helped to shape the efforts currently underway.

“Second, NATO has and will continue to play a role in helping Ukraine deal with the negative consequences of reforms, particularly downsizing. The training of retired servicemen and women is essential to help them find jobs and to re-integrate in civilian society. We have trust funds in that area and also help Ukraine dispose of dangerous weapons and military sites that are no longer required by the armed forces.

“Third, NATO is actively involved in assisting Ukraine to modernize its basic practices, including training and education. That is part of what is meant by the introduction of NATO standards throughout the armed forces. There is also a more technical aspect in which we are also closely engaged with the direct involvement of the NATO Standardization Agency.”

In which way can the Association Agreement with the EU influence NATO-Ukraine cooperation?

“NATO-Ukraine relations have their own dynamic and reciprocity but are clearly influenced by Ukraine’s relations with its neighbors and the EU, if only because of strong degree of overlap between the membership of the EU and NATO.

“Moreover, the EU and NATO are values-based organizations and we share the same values. I am in Kyiv to lead the assessment of Ukraine’s Annual National Program, and one of the key issues we are examining is Ukraine’s progress in the area of democratic and judicial reforms.

“I don’t want to prejudge the results of the assessment process, which will be completed by Allies through discussions in Brussels.” 

It is often said that Russia has more joint projects and programs with NATO than Ukraine. Is this really the case? Can you elaborate on this?

“NATO probably does have more projects and programs with Russia and Ukraine than with most other partner, and we certainly have developed an extensive infrastructure for cooperation with Russia through the NATO-Russia Council and a host of subsidiary bodies and working groups.

“But we have an equally extensive infrastructure for cooperation with Ukraine under the NATO-Ukraine Commission that includes two Kyiv-based offices and five working groups on defense reforms, science and the environment, defense-technical cooperation, civil emergencies, and economic security.

“Moreover, in view of Ukraine’s contributions to all of NATO’s current operations, its active participation in the NATO Response Force and NATO exercises like Steadfast Jazz, it would be plain wrong to describe Ukraine’s relations with NATO as less extensive or significant than our ties with Russia.”

We know that the Alliance maintains its open-door policy towards Ukraine. This was reconfirmed during the recent sitting of the NATO-Russia Council. Does this signify that the Alliance is interested in Ukraine joining it?

“It is up to Ukraine to decide whether it wants to join NATO. Your policy is to maintain a non-bloc status and we respect this policy. Our cooperation has only deepened since 2010 when you adopted it. The Open Door policy merely states that NATO is ready to accept new members who wish to join and who meet the criteria for membership. It is an affirmation of the Helsinki right of nations to engage in relations with partners of their choice.” 

Can you say what will be the main topics of next NATO Summit in London in October 2014?

“Summit, as you said, will take place in less or more a year. And the agenda finalized as we draw closer to that date. And we more or less talk about the Afghanistan which will be the main theme because we will be closer to drawdown of the ISAF operation. So it is normal to have meeting with ISAF partners and with future resolute support partners as well for the new operation that we expect entering into force in the beginning of 2015. The other aspect that I touch upon has to do with all these capabilities that we have accepted and also the way to deal with the need to have capabilities that are required to face the challenges that we will have to face in a climate of economic difficulties. The concept that NATO is developing like smart defense, like CFI, are things that we are looking at as well. And of course we have to see how we are to continue working as an Alliance as a whole and including between European allies and the allies across the Atlantic. So this transatlantic link is always very important for the Alliance.”